tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post6000108812046780346..comments2023-10-21T03:56:17.837-07:00Comments on Zen Buddhism Dogen and the Shobogenzo: On Zazen and Koans - A Response to KogenTed Biringerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00497538623775589400noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-21281757884775364752012-08-23T13:33:07.419-07:002012-08-23T13:33:07.419-07:00That's Farmer Monk, as in, my hands are dirty ...That's Farmer Monk, as in, my hands are dirty and I won't wash them until practice period; what does a lawyer TWH (teacher with hair) house holder know about either? <br /><br />Also, if carrots and tomatos come from the same place, then zazen and koan practice must be the same, too. <br /><br />The difference is as vast and minute as the difference between a bird and fish, but if you put a carrot in the tomato's soil, it will die at once. <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-14483995519161516962012-08-23T07:26:05.938-07:002012-08-23T07:26:05.938-07:00It comes from where the carrots and tomatoes come ...It comes from where the carrots and tomatoes come from, farmer, and where they don't come from too. <br /><br />Gassho, Jjundo cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564338025084888194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-15309243787161935562012-08-23T06:09:22.111-07:002012-08-23T06:09:22.111-07:00Does this come from a will to truth, or a will to ...Does this come from a will to truth, or a will to be clever?<br /><br />Gassho, <br /> KogenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-515693081811966292012-08-23T02:16:23.234-07:002012-08-23T02:16:23.234-07:00No, mountains do not walk, fish do not swim and bi...No, mountains do not walk, fish do not swim and birds do not fly.<br /><br />Gassho, Jundojundo cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564338025084888194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-73897595357701225832012-08-22T21:29:32.949-07:002012-08-22T21:29:32.949-07:00Dear Jundo,
But don't mountains still walk? ...Dear Jundo, <br /><br />But don't mountains still walk? If they do, they I think trees could fly like bees; it might take different eyes.<br /><br />-Kogen<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-29097041738400588422012-08-20T11:55:55.337-07:002012-08-20T11:55:55.337-07:00Farmer Monk said ...
If I may, Zazen is Zazen, bu...Farmer Monk said ...<br /><br /><i>If I may, Zazen is Zazen, but Rinzai is not Rinzai nor Soto, Soto. We are just Buddhists, except when our teachers tell us other wise. </i><br /><br />This is precisely so. As well, we are not even "Buddhists" but that some name tells us so ... for we are each other, trees and bees and seas and baby pee ... and not even those names. Zazen is all of that and all just Zazen with no nothing left out. <br /><br />Yet, in fact, trees do not fly like bees and Shikantaza is not Kanna Zazen, and sailing a sea ship is not changing a wet diaper or buzzing like a bee. <br /><br />I hope that is clearer. Koans are obvious but tricky.<br /><br />Gassho, Jundojundo cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564338025084888194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-56016595089435056922012-08-17T01:02:12.040-07:002012-08-17T01:02:12.040-07:00Hello Kogen,
Thanks for sharing.
We are certainl...Hello Kogen,<br /><br />Thanks for sharing.<br /><br />We are certainly fortunate to have the kind of access we do to so many of the classic Zen masters.<br /><br />While my flesh and blood teachers have been and continue to be crucial guiding influences for me, the reliability of the teachings of the classic masters has proven to be second only to the master of seeing and hearing that meets me wherever I go.<br /><br />Until next time. I will meet you there...<br /><br />Ted Ted Biringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00497538623775589400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-12416623600524913272012-08-17T00:54:18.224-07:002012-08-17T00:54:18.224-07:00Hello Jundo,
Thank you for your comment.
TedHello Jundo,<br /><br />Thank you for your comment.<br /><br />TedTed Biringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00497538623775589400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-73225615720213847462012-08-14T04:35:54.674-07:002012-08-14T04:35:54.674-07:00Dear Ted,
Thank you very much. I don't disag...Dear Ted, <br /><br />Thank you very much. I don't disagree at all. <br /><br />Dear Jundo, <br /><br />If I may, Zazen is Zazen, but Rinzai is not Rinzai nor Soto, Soto. We are just Buddhists, except when our teachers tell us other wise. <br /><br />And respectfully, with a will to truth, preaching is preaching, and my teacher has warned me against this. It suprises me to see you do this here. They advise, only offer what is true, timely, benefical, and an improvement on silence. Furthur, Kosho Zenrei says, "There are two parts to wisdom. Having a lot to say, and not saying it." <br /><br />I understand what Ted is saying here. I don't understand the point you're trying to make, other than ruffle some feathers. Can you clarify your intent? <br /><br />Gassho, <br /><br />KogenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-17110382815611773592012-08-10T19:33:13.646-07:002012-08-10T19:33:13.646-07:00Hi Ted,
I have an MMK, not an MML. :-)
Actually,...Hi Ted,<br /><br />I have an MMK, not an MML. :-)<br /><br />Actually, Dogen did point out how sailing is precisely Zazen, even though I would not think to pilot a boat in the Lotus Posture ... From Shobogenzo Zenki ...<br /><br /><i>Life can be likened to a time when a person is sailing in a boat.<br />On this boat, I am operating the sail, I have taken the rudder, I am pushing the pole; at the same time, the boat is carrying me, and there is no "I" beyond the boat. Through my sailing of the boat, this boat is being caused to be a boat -- let us consider, and learn in practice, just this moment of the present. At this very moment, there is nothing other than the world of the boat: the sky, the water, the shore have a11 became the moment of the boat, which is utterly different from moments not on the boat. So life is what I am making it, and I am what life is making me, While I am sailing in the boat, my body and mind and circumstances and self are all essential parts of the boat; and the whole earth and the whole of space are all essential parts of the boat. What has been described like this is that life is the self, and the self is life.</i>v <br />(from Master Dogen's Shobogenzo Zenki - translation by Gudo Nishijima and Chodo Cross)<br /><br />Gassho, J<br /><br />PS - Ted, you are making me a little nervous with the all the references to corpses, blood and body parts. What's up with that?jundo cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564338025084888194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-76633553417592075332012-08-10T12:59:43.105-07:002012-08-10T12:59:43.105-07:00Hello Jundo,
Thank you for your comment.
I did n...Hello Jundo,<br /><br />Thank you for your comment.<br /><br />I did not realize you were also a master mariner - or, of course, you would not presume to advise other mariners on piloting and seamanship.<br /><br />I will not ask what the rating of your MML is - when it comes to practical seamanship certificates are utterly meaningless - but I wonder where you have sailed to and who you you sailed under, did s/he have open eyes?<br /><br />Keep a sharp lookout Swabee, the harbor is awash in corpses.<br /><br />AAHRRRRR!<br /><br />TedTed Biringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00497538623775589400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-18545005735259246212012-08-10T08:14:46.945-07:002012-08-10T08:14:46.945-07:00You too, Ted.
Ted, may I ask you: Can you pilot y...You too, Ted.<br /><br />Ted, may I ask you: Can you pilot your ship and sit Zazen at the same time? <br /><br />Yes, ship piloting and Zazen are one and the same. Nonetheless, piloting is piloting and sitting Zazen is sitting Zazen. It would be perhaps risky to pilot a boat while facing a wall. So, when piloting just pilot ... and keep an eye out for rocks and reefs. When sitting, just sit. <br /><br />Nonetheless, Zazen is precisely piloting ... and Koans ... and piloting Koans is just Zazen. <br /><br />Gassho, Jjundo cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564338025084888194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-74159307070814417232012-08-10T07:10:39.506-07:002012-08-10T07:10:39.506-07:00Hello Jundo,
Thank you for your comment.
TedHello Jundo,<br /><br />Thank you for your comment.<br /><br />TedTed Biringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00497538623775589400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-9724177626210346242012-08-09T19:40:49.572-07:002012-08-09T19:40:49.572-07:00Hi Ted,
If I may, I would say that most modern So...Hi Ted,<br /><br />If I may, I would say that most modern Soto teachers I know would agree with you that Zazen and Koans and eating and chanting are not apart from Zazen in the least. On the other hand, neither are they the same. One would no more sit in Zazen on the cushion, facing the wall, while practicing Oryoki or chanting or bowing than one would sit in Zazen working with a Koan. When we sit Zazen, we simply sit Shikantaza, and there is nothing more in need of doing or other place to go ... nothing more that need be done but here. <br /><br />On the other hand (our way is always approaching things from many angles and no angle at all), rising from the cushion there are 1001 things do. At that time, when chanting there is just chanting, when eating there is just eating, bowing bowing ... and all are "Zazen" in its boundless meaning. Likewise, when working with a Koan, whether just thinking about it or studying it or dancing the meaning like Dogen or simply allowing the Koan to be the marrow of the bones, such is "Zazen" too. So, in this modern age (for our "at home" folks") is changing a baby diaper, working in the office, or (in your case) driving you ship. All "Zazen" when approached as such. <br /><br />But when sitting Zazen, we do not chant, change baby diapers, reflect on Koans, drive ships or anything more. There is Just Sitting, Fulfilled and Whole. <br /><br />Most modern Soto Teachers I know would say so, although of course, many of the White Plum and other mixed Rinzai-Soto Teachers would not perhaps. <br /><br />Gassho, Jundojundo cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564338025084888194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-45342423525727382342012-08-09T19:38:54.916-07:002012-08-09T19:38:54.916-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.jundo cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564338025084888194noreply@blogger.com