tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post1839267160879145254..comments2023-10-21T03:56:17.837-07:00Comments on Zen Buddhism Dogen and the Shobogenzo: Dogen's use of Criticism in ShobogenzoTed Biringerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00497538623775589400noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-2977966793981548032008-12-01T14:46:00.000-08:002008-12-01T14:46:00.000-08:00Thank you for your kind words, Ted. For me, what r...Thank you for your kind words, Ted. <BR/><BR/>For me, what real certainty I have found is all in the negative.<BR/><BR/>It relates to what Jordan described as "vectoring away" from what we know to be not true. <BR/><BR/>People's conceptions of right posture, I am certain, as a result of doing Alexander work for nearly 15 years now, are generally all false. Pulling in the chin as I used to do it, was certainly symptomatic of delusion. <BR/><BR/>What enlightenment is, you and I do not know. We could join the chorus of those who parrot that Zazen itself is just enlightenment, but something in us resists joining that shallow crowd. <BR/><BR/>But our own delusion we can be certain about. And one manifestation of it is this terrible verbal diarrhea that we both seem to suffer from!<BR/><BR/>All the best,<BR/><BR/>MikeMike Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12712396374023835678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-24886002490160177432008-11-30T21:38:00.000-08:002008-11-30T21:38:00.000-08:00Hello Mike,Thank you very much for your thoughtful...Hello Mike,<BR/><BR/>Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments.<BR/><BR/>I totally agree with you about Master Dogen's being 'beyond sectarianism' as well as his firm affirmation of the teaching of Buddha. In my understanding, everything Dogen spoke or wrote was primarily aimed at the alleiviation of suffering through the transmission (and/or manifestation) of the authentic Buddha Dharma.<BR/><BR/>While I appreciate your kind words about my 'powerful intellect', I personally sense a definite lack of power in that area, though I do seem impelled to continuously search for an understanding of Master Dogen's work. For some reason, I find it nearly impossible not to ponder his work on a regular basis.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, I will be the first to admit that there does not seem to be much about his teaching that I could claim any certain 'understanding' about. After 20 some odd years of studying and sitting with Master Dogen, about all I can say I am certain of is that my exploration of his work has been a fascinating, inspiring, and life changing journey.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, I take your counsel seriously and will try to apply it in my ongoing study. <BR/><BR/>Thank you also for your massive contribution to English speaking students of Master Dogen. Your translations of his works, in your 4 voulume, Master Dogen's Shobogenzo (with Gudo Nishijima) and your continuing work online has enriched my life more than you might imagine. Thank You!<BR/><BR/>Your observation that I may be in danger of overcomplicating Master Dogen's teaching does fit one of the traits that has been a hindrance to me on a regular basis.<BR/><BR/>I will try to increase my own awareness of the tendency to allow my personal opinions to taint Master Dogen's teachings. Also, when I feel unable to avoid offering my own opinion I will make an effort to indicate that it is simply a 'personal opinion.'<BR/><BR/>Thanks again! <BR/><BR/>Respectfuly,<BR/><BR/>Ted BiringerTed Biringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00497538623775589400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-24497385716415106582008-11-30T10:28:00.000-08:002008-11-30T10:28:00.000-08:00Ted, I think Master Dogen was totally beyond secta...Ted, <BR/><BR/>I think Master Dogen was totally beyond sectarianism and his belief in the teaching of Gautama Buddha was utterly beyond any kind of criticism of Gautama Buddha, tacit or otherwise. <BR/><BR/>I think that, because of your evidently powerful intellect, you are in danger of making Master Dogen's teaching more complicated than it is.<BR/><BR/>samaadhi-yukta-cittasya, if my understanding is correct, means balance harnessed to intelligence.<BR/><BR/>The Alexander teacher Walter Carrington wrote a good paper about Alexander's discoveries titled "Balance as a Function of Intelligence." <BR/><BR/>So I am by no means, I hope, prejudiced against intelligence, as many so-called "Soto Zen Masters" seem to be. <BR/><BR/>But it looks to me that your intelligence is just pulling around a lot of baggage in the form of your own opinions. <BR/><BR/>Mirror principle? Probably so. <BR/><BR/>In that case, I recommend us both, in spite of being intelligent, to drop off our own opinions. <BR/><BR/>Good luck with that!<BR/><BR/>MikeMike Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12712396374023835678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-64651056032145907782008-11-25T08:13:00.000-08:002008-11-25T08:13:00.000-08:00Hi Ted,First, I want to tell you how much I apprec...Hi Ted,<BR/><BR/>First, I want to tell you how much I appreciate this blog. I know very little about Dogen and, thanks to your efforts, I know both more and less than ever before.<BR/><BR/>Suzuki Roshi used to tell his students: Shoshaku jushaku. As human beings, we make mistake after mistake. <BR/><BR/>That's just how it is for us. Surely, even the Buddha himself was subject to error and delusion. He was, after all, a human being.<BR/><BR/>I rarely learn much from other people's mistakes, except in a kind of intellectual way ("there but for the grace of God, go I"). In this way, Dogen's criticisms of others strike me as rather dry and beside the point.<BR/><BR/>My own mistakes and delusions, on the other hand, are a great treasure. However, I depend on teachers, friends, colleagues, and (especially) my wife to shove my nose into my mistakes and delusions. Without their support, there's just no way that I'd look deeply into this stuff.<BR/><BR/>When I can do this work, then I indeed must let go of my "old views" - and discover that I have no new nest, nowhere to settle.<BR/><BR/>Yours in the Dharma,<BR/>BarryBarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09412033978642026623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-71197774784264044912008-11-24T02:03:00.000-08:002008-11-24T02:03:00.000-08:00For Dogen, it seems to me, delusion is as 'inheren...<I>For Dogen, it seems to me, delusion is as 'inherent' as enlightenment, and that clinging to either is 'one-sided'.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, I agree. Thank you for that quote. Daigo rules.<BR/><BR/>Thank you!Ukuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04703263700723051345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-90161427450655249312008-11-23T19:10:00.000-08:002008-11-23T19:10:00.000-08:00Hello Uku,Thank you for your thought provoking com...Hello Uku,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your thought provoking comments.<BR/><BR/>Me too! Ha!<BR/><BR/>And at the same time, Dogen seems to often point out that enlightenment is not the eradication of delusion, but the illumination of it. For Dogen, it seems to me, delusion is as 'inherent' as enlightenment, and that clinging to either is 'one-sided'. Check out Shobogenzo, Daigo, for a great perspective on this. Here is an excerpt:<BR/><BR/>"...when we search for and try to comprehend a person who has reverted to delusion, we will encounter someone who has experienced the great realization. We need to carefully scrutinize, right now, whether we ourselves are deluded or not, for it is by this that we humbly encounter the Buddhas and Ancestors."<BR/>“Shobogenzo, Daigo” trans. Rev. Hubert Nearman<BR/><BR/>Thanks again!<BR/>TedTed Biringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00497538623775589400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36986548.post-24369853199540550412008-11-22T14:36:00.000-08:002008-11-22T14:36:00.000-08:00Ted,thank you very much for your interesting post....Ted,<BR/><BR/>thank you very much for your interesting post.<BR/><BR/>I think, in the end we're all humans and we all make mistakes. It's part of our lives and enlightenment (tm) or what ever won't change the fact that we're humane beings and we're allowed to do both ignorant and beautiful things. So, that's why when practicing Buddha's Way our acts and thoughts are coming from our buddha nature, we want it or not. And practicing helps us to realize the meaning of our thoughts and acts so we're able to do more skillful than ignorant things; not being attached to anything. Killing Buddha. And more we practice, our acts and thoughts will become more skillful than ignorant, we're helping more than destroying. And to learn doing skillful acts, we need road signs like Dogen's and other teachers' teachings and writings.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, I think what Dogen's use of criticism can help us is that Dogen show us how stupid and empty words and teachings can be without practicing Buddha's Way at the same time; everyone can write and say wise and beautiful Zen-like things but if our minds are deluded, we can't see the true meaning of teachings and words. And in the end, we all have to realize the reality by ourselves, no one can't do it for us. We have to walk through the Gateless Gate by ourselves.<BR/><BR/>Like Dogen wrote in Gakudo Yojin-shu (transl. E. Brown, K. Tanahashi): <I>Listening to the teaching opens up your conscious mind, while sitting zazen is concerned with practice-enlightenment. Therefore, if you neglect either of these when entering the buddha way, you cannot hit the mark.</I> And later on, he continues: <I>To follow buddha completely means you do not have your old views. To hit the mark completely means you have no new nest in which to settle.</I><BR/><BR/>But I don't know. That's why I practice Zazen and study writings. With beginner's mind.<BR/><BR/>With palms together,<BR/>UkuUkuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04703263700723051345noreply@blogger.com